New grower

[timbo]

Hi , I'm new to ginseng. I've been an outdoorsman my whole life. Hunting ,trapping , you name it. I have never hunted or heard of hunting ginseng ! Any way I got Pritts book and read it cover to cover several times and have been looking for wild half heartedly. No time. I have a small patch of woods on my property with maple cherry and some ash. I also have a large pile of wood/ leaf compost. Its pretty much like potting soil. My question is would it be a good idea to spread this material to increase the depth of the forest loam. These trees aren't super old. It was a brushy field 20 years ago. I have a couple big mama trees that are about 3' through that I was think of planting first around them. Not much light gets through under them. Also was thinking of seeding some wild ginseng soil in these beds for fungal and micro nutrient boost. I relize this could introduce problems but seems to me the benefits out way risks. Any thoughts? also could you supply some root earth with an order Brad?

[Brad]

Hi Timbo,

Welcome to the forum.

I don't think you will have to add anything to your soil for the most part.  I"ve grown ginseng beside my porch in town using cinimon ferns for shade.  As long as the soil is loose and drains well, you should be in business. 

That said, you can certainly increase the charcter of ginseng planted in beds with the addition of peat and leaf mold.  You might also want to do a soil test to see if there is anything else you should be worried about, but the most common thing will be low calcium which you can add directly when planting with pelletized gypsum.  2000-3000 pounds per acre is not bad for ginseng.  Very high generally, but good for ginseng.

No, I don't think I want to get into selling dirt mixes.  Thanks for asking though!

b

[timbo]

Thanks for the quick response. Is gypsum a better choice than lime? Is this because it doesn't change the ph or are there other reasons. Also what are your thoughts on bonemeal?

[Brad]

Yes, that is primarily why.  Generally, it is accepted that ginseng does well with very high calcium and lower pH.  Bonemeal is normally used to add phosphorus.  Most people who add phosphorus do so in the form of rock phosphate.  I normally do not go there with my ginseng, but know some who do and they are having good luck.

[timbo]

Just spread a few tons of compost mulch. I have been piling it for twenty years pondering where to put and why. When I discovered ginseng cultivation the light bulb went off ....BING. I think what I am going to shoot for is wild simulated grown in small patches with good spacing and let some trees and good weeds do there thing. I will weed out brambles and troublesome plants. What do you guys (Brad) think of introducing some good weeds , jack - in- the- pulpit , cohosh , etc. The reason I ask is one of my clients who has some real nice hardwoods where I saw some growing this spring. I will be working over there next week and can't wait to look for ginseng over there. I don't think is was late enough for the ginseng to be up when i was there last , but will be in flower now , right? I want to plant a little goldenseal too and would like the woods to look as natural as possible. Not just for looks , but security and a balanced eco system. I figure after ten years or so I will probably only harvest selectively and dig when I need the money. I will use the seed i produce for wild plantings that I will harvest as they ripen.

[Brad]

My ginseng has balls of green berries at this point.

there is certainly nothing wrong with adding other woodland botanicals and medicinal herbs into the area.

One word of caution though, depending on your states laws, you might be prohibited from collecting seeds from wild simulated plantings.  Ohio is one that considers wild simulated (no common agricultural practices such as spraying, weeding, or preparation of beds) to be wild and as a result it falls under the rules and regs for wild ginseng.  This includes that one cannot collect seeds from wild ginseng.  However, it does not suggest that you could not plant the berries near the mother plant.

[timbo]

I would be in violation by taking seed from my plants ,on my property to another location?!!!

[Brad]

If you are in Ohio, yes technically that would be a violation.  However, I've known folks to legally harvest wild ginseng, move them into a bed where they perform common agricultural processes, such as weeding, spraying, or placing fencing and bird netting over the plants to keep the birds from getting eaten before harves.  They then collect seeds from those plants to plant around on their property. 

[timbo]

Well my 800 square feet has turned to about 1200. It's real good looking ground though. Not steep but has slight slope running north. I improved the drainage a little with my hoe. I have about 1800 - 2000 square feet that can be planted in wild sim too. I have been salting the woods grown plots with some rock phosphate and gypsum and tilling it in to place the phosphate deeper. I was wondering though if its even worth putting phosphate on the wild sim sites. I'm not going to do nothing for prep there just plant it. Mostly with seed but I may plant a few older roots as well. Should I use any amendments when I plant rootlets in a wild-sim type situation or leave em alone and just plant em. I figure I can plant about another 2500 sq ft of wild sim plots next year ( and over seed lightly this years plots) . With a little strategic tree planting I should be able to plant about the same amount for the next few years. then i guess I'll have to find some new woods to work. It's like eating potato chips!

[Brad]

LOL  yes, it is.

I once was talking to a commercial grower friend.  Now, this guy has 120 acres under shade.  That means they plant and harvest about 30 acres each year.  I was mentioning that his labor costs must be massive since he had to disinfect every piece of equipment as he moved it to a new location.  He verified that indeed it was.  The bring in large livestock watering tubs and fill them with bleach water to disinfect posts, netting,  and hardware for the shade. 

Then, he looked at me and said that this was not at all the expensive part.

So I asked...

He then told me the expensive part was buying new farms!

Remember, with replant failure in commercial or other dense plantings, they canrnot afford to plant the same ground twice.  In fact, the ginseng growers associations keep a registry of farm ground to verify if the land has had ginseng grown there at any point prior.

As a result, these guys tie up lots of land.  They grow their own straw (and be sure it is VERY clean), they lease out for potatoes and other herbal crops too until theyhave it conditioned and ready to plant their ginseng crop.  They then tend that crop for 4 years on average before harvesting it...and then moving to new ground.

[timbo]

Up here in northern NY land for growing ginseng is reasonably priced. If it has mature timber then its quite a bit more. But the trouble is finding a piece thats cheap enough , has the right layout and is defendable. Most hunters wouldn't know ginseng from a hole in the ground, but it would only take one. We also have alot of state land in my area and that borders many remote properties. They tend to get over hunted so they're used as access points to "back door" private property. I think fencing would attract attention so that probably wouldn't help either. On my land I have scottish highland cattle (big horns) and a bull. Idon't recall ever seeing a trespasser crossing my fields. They are hell on gardens though.

[Brad]

Yes, I understand.  I'll be looking for new ground soon.  I've been in the same 14 acre lot since about 2000.  There is still room to grow there, but the dynamics of the property are making me start to become just a little uneasy about staying there as my only option more than a few more years.

[timbo]

Where I'm about to plant has good points and bad too. It's close to home so I can keep an eye on it but it's close to home so everyone else can keep an eye on it to. I'm don't entertain much but have customers and clients around occasionally so someone is bound to notice eventually. I'm going for the natural look so ginseng should blend in pretty good. Down side is limited room for expansion on my own property. I think I'll be doing the Johny apple seed thing for a while. A lot of our area is overgrown farmland that was abandoned after the depression and hasn't reseeded much. I hope to get up into our gulf regions where the terrain is rough so was never logged off. If there is any wild ginseng around thats where it would be. And if there isn't , there will be.

[JWforestSeng]

very informative thread. Can we rename it Brad? I mean can you rename it?

[Brad]

Well, yes, I could...but why, and to what should it be renamed?